I have a confession to make. Despite being a tanking addict for the entirety of my 25-man raiding career, Wrath of the Lich King has started to corrupt me. Instead of looking forward to encounters in which I get to play a major tanking role, I have recently found myself more excited by those bosses that allow me to let loose as full-on kitty DPS, and make a bloody mess of a boss. There are a few reasons for this recent change of heart, and I'd like to examine them just to get them out there.
Where is that crazy bear coming from?
1. First and foremost, feral DPS in Wrath of the Lich King is fun and challenging. Cats in Burning Crusade had a fairly mindless rotation: Mangle, Shred to 5 combo points, Rip, repeat. It was simple, did uncompetitive damage, and you could slip into a coma while doing it if you were not careful.
Kitty Druids in WotLK are the polar opposite; a player in cat form must maintain a complex DPS cycle that forces him to manage four separate buffs/debuffs all with different durations. Three special attacks (Rake, Mangle, Shred), three finishing moves (Rip, Savage Roar, Ferocious Bite), and two boosting skills (Tiger's Fury, Berserk) must be constantly juggled if a feral wants to put out maximum DPS, all while reacting to the specific mechanics of the boss encounter that you are participating in. (Heigan, for example, is far and away the most frantic fight in T7 for a DPS feral, and thus provides a huge rush.)
2. By contrast, tanking has never been so mindless and trivial as it is in Wrath of the Lich King. Raid trash is a monotonous AOE-fest that is devoid of any real challenge -Swipe/Maul spam really doesn't serve as a test of anything except finger strength. Furthermore, tank threat is so ridiculously high that there is no pressure to play to the best of your ability while tanking a boss - DPS will simply never catch a tank under the current game mechanics. Perhaps this is my personality shining through, but if I don't need to try in order to do a job, then I don't want to try. I love a challenge, and hate a cakewalk.
Adding to the misery is the utterly deplorable offtank jobs in many of the encounters. Picking up slimes from Grobbulus, or not killing Grand Widow Faerlina's adds so that they can be mind controlled, or babysitting the Understudies for the priests in the Instructor Razuvious encounter - none of these can be considered remotely exciting duties. (Notable exceptions: Kel'Thuzad's adds can be a challenge, and managing Noth on the dead side can get hectic if the live side gets behind.) What ever happened to the life-or-death rush to pick up Al'ar's embers, or the craziness that was involved in grabbing all of the murlocs that Tidewalker summoned, or handling the myriad of adds while fighting Lady Vashj, or even just managing one of Moroes' assistants while simultaneously trying to stay second on his his threat table? Where did the challenge go?
3. Another huge consideration (for me) is that feral DPS gear serves as better than average emergency tanking gear due to the armor multipliers from Dire Bear form, and the baked in crit immunity bestowed by Survival of the Fittest.
Since my guild's 25-man raids always contain at least one plated tank, overall raid DPS benefits by assigning the ferals to offtank/DPS duty while the other tank(s) handle the main tanking duties. If/when the main tank dies, a feral Druid can easily assume Dire Bear Form, and tank nearly every boss currently in the game in full DPS gear.
When patch 3.0.8 goes live this issue will only be exacerbated - leather armor will grant even more mitigation, and the importance of tanking jewellery will be dulled. Put another way, in a few weeks my cat suit will become even more viable as a main tanking set, even if I gem and enchant it for maximum DPS and shun all avoidance stats.
Emo bear is so emo?
In closing, I can only hope that the more difficult 25-man content that Blizzard has promised us brings back the challenge to tanking, because without it, I may just slip into the shadows and become a full time kitty in the large dungeons. Feral DPS is an engaging challenge that keeps me on the edge of my seat, while feral tanking feels like a chore. It's time to bring the fun back to the tanking side of the game.
24 comments:
I totally agree. Tanking has become a mindless chore with none of the prior challenges it used to offer. I hope they rethink this dumbed down approach they've adopted for Wrath.
Karthis,
My situation is a little different to yours, as my guild is still struggling through 10-man naxx. However, I found I approached things in the reverse order to you. I changed to kitty dps for levelling and the start of my heroics/raiding in Wrath, and have recently accumulated enough gear to start tanking again. Your site was immensely helpful for that, so many thanks for your work and the information you provided.
I tanked Patchwerk, Noth and Heigan last night, it was a real buzz to be able to raid tank successfully again. I hope you find your tanking spark again as well.
@Unglar:
Main-tanking Noth and Heigan are both fun challenges. Noth requires fast pick-ups after he blinks, while Heigan requires precise movement and the lives of the DPS classes are in your hands. (Noth, as well, is a decent offtank challenge assuming you only have a single offtank - he spawns a lot of adds on 25-man).
Congrats on your recent successes - and I too hope that I relocate my tanking spark ASAP! =)
My tank only just dinged 80 a few days ago, and I'm already hating the DPS attitude of 'Don't bother CCing, let's just AoE'. I don't have to think anymore for heroics, it's just swipe-swipe-swipe. No more carefully marking up groups, watching out for the CC.
I did get to tank Naxx 25 for a PUG tonight, which was challenging, but I think that was more because I was an undergeared tank having to main tank for a bunch of randoms who didn't know what they were doing. Heigan was a bunch of fun to tank though, and while I haven't got there yet, Four Horsemen looks like it could be a fun fight to tank.
Anyone aware of an addon that can help track all of our DoTs/debuffs (Rip, Rake, Mangle, SR), cooldowns (ToF, Berserk), energy levels, CP, etc. for kitty? I thought someone had one in the works, but I can't find it. I thought I read there is a similar addon for rogues???
Something that "bubbles up" the action you should take next???
@Felkan:
I use NeedToKnow to manage all the buffs/debuffs (post on that soon) however that's only part of what you're asking.
I think TellMeWhen covers off the other half, however I never got it to work to my satisfaction - I think that's because I got a bad version. I'll try it out again - perhaps tonight.
Failing that, Flyv and I keep threatening to code a druid dps helper addon - maybe we'll actually get there.
My advice, what worked for me, is to treat tanking like another DPS spot. Blizzard's said they intended for tank DPS to be at a level where it can contribute to meeting (or not meeting) an enrage timer. When I embraced the idea of maximizing "bear DPS", I found that tanking got a lot more interesting, and the maximum damage rotation was noticeably more complex than just getting enough threat. There's a joy in the perfect timing of Enrage, hitting it in the most target-rich environment for Swipe spam while having to judge if the armor loss is going to make things too hard for your healers, and Maul and Mangle can make some pretty huge yellow numbers pop up. And when you start balancing your gear between maximizing your damage output and maintaining enough survivability and mitigation to not make your healers work too hard, that's a lot more interesting too. Plus, it's fun to watch the lower end DPSers pick up the pace when the tank starts edging up behind them on their meters...
I guess it depends on your play style, and I love cat DPS too for all the reasons you mentioned, but that's what made bear more interesting for me. :)
DPS happens. After being a healbot since the beginning of WoW time, Al is a retadin. We had 10 or so guildies leveling up at around the same pace, and we had two badass healers, as good as, and quite possibly better than Al. While people seemed perfectly willing to drag me along as a studly 500dps shockbot, I thought I'd give Ret a go and see what all the buzz was about. On my first run, Ret boosted my measly 500dps to 410dps. Take that, pally detractors!
The next night, I put on some more Ret-appropriate gear and tripled my dps, and it's just been shooting up since then. I PuGged into Naxx and got a T7 leg drop, which was the deciding factor for me that I'm primarily Ret now. I couldn't in clear conscience take that T7 piece and get holy gear that would not help the raid that got me the gear, so...
I'm having a lot of fun with it, to the extent that my other four 70+ ex-raiders are just working on their tradeskills in town while I actually *focus* on my main for a change. I can smash faces very competitively, and I can still throw that clutch heal to save the tank when the healer is webbed.
I'm loving the ability to be mainly DPS but also be able to tank the last 10% of the boss if something goes wrong. However, I'm disappointed that I can't pick up all the DPS talents while keeping tanking talents like Thick Hide to be a competent "oh ****" tank. I mean... it's the same talent tree! I want my cake and eat it too.
Which DPS talent did you give up?
- Panzor @ The Scryers
My spec is here:
http://teethandclaws.blogspot.com/2008/12/level-80-feral-raiding-spec.html
I would assert that the spec given will produce competitive DPS (not chart-topping) while maintaining ability to both emergency tank in kitty gear, and main tank in tanking gear.
If you're still looking for a buff/debuff tracking addon I strongly encourage you to try out Rogue Power Bars. Obviously it was originally intended for rogues, but with recent updates it's able to handle any buff or debuff in the game. It's far easier to figure out than DoTimer at least, though I can't compare it to NeedToKnow, TellMeWhen, ClassTimer, etc. I can't imagine those are much easier though.
You definitely have a point about the fun of trying to dps compared to the relative boredom of tanking, but all is not lost. As you pointed out there are still some fun fights to tank like Noth, Heigan, Gothik (he's the fight with the live side and dead side, btw), Malygos, Grobbulus (main tank, not off). Patchwerk can be fun because you can do good dps on him, over 2000 without much trouble. I manage to routinely beat dps on Thaddius if they can't figure out how to switch sides.
I wouldn't worry too much about tanking being boring for now. I fully expect some of the fights in Ulduar to really challenge us, especially the hard modes.
About the threat thing...
I used to be of the opinion that threat is through the roof... Just you wait, I say, just you wait. Once your mages, enh shamans and DPS warriors starts getting their full epic gear, Betrayers etc, you'll get a run for your money to keep the boss on you.
Now, most are tauntable, but what fun is that? Besides, it's risky.
What changed a lot is threat scaling I think, maybe not for druids (I'm healing WotLK, and I can say that sadly, druids are by far the worst tanking class right now), but certainly so for warriors and DKs, who which we use the most.
Not sure how long QSS has come, personally we had a few really good Sartharion attempts with all 3 drakes left up yesterday. Very fun fight and truly challenging.
Regarding threat, Patchwerk and Malygos will prove good benchmarks for you there, if you're looking for a challenge.
@Erlak:
Our DPS puts out 3000-4500 depending on the fight and their class/spec/skill.
Aside from Loatheb when the tank accidentally gets the threat-negating buff, I've never seen a DPSer come even CLOSE to a tank's threat, let alone have to use invis/feign death/soul shatter.
If you're attempting 3 drakes on Sarth then you're a drake ahead of us - we're working on two. We've been farming Naxx-25 since before Christmas, and have generally excellently-geared raiders (with a few exceptions, I'll admit).
Karthis and you have no threat problems?
That is quite a feat, actually, if it's because of your superiour tanks or something else I don't know!
We have to use hand of salvation frequently, as well as make sure our top DPSers without threat dumps (Moonkin, enh shaman, TG warrior) keeps an eye on their Omens on the most DPS-friendly bosses, cause else they'll get too close.
Grats on 2 drakes, we got 2 drakes down fairly easily after a few nights on 3 drakes, loosing Shadron was such a relief.
GL on 3 drakes!
PS, not sure if you took offense by what I said. I didn't in any way mean to.
Erlak:
To be honest I'm not sure of the reasons why we do not see threat problems in fights. I suppose to be fair some of the classes with dumps are probably so accustomed to using them that they do so early and often, but there is still the nagging issue of the classes without any dumps (moonkin being a big one, as you mention). We're also alliance, so any night elf can simply shadowmeld to ditch all threat.
I'll pay more attention to the threat meters on my next raid, and try to come back with some solid numbers instead of just hand-waving like this.
Regarding Sarth + 2 drakes - we haven't got it yet - that's a work in progress =)
I generally don't run into problems with threat (other than the occasional Loatheb spore...) except on Malygos. If the dps get a double spark stack with Heroism up I have to keep my taunt button ready to go at any moment. Warlocks who use demonic circle to get out of vortex have also caused problems for me there. Have you not noticed any issues with Malygos before?
Ha interesting post! I like cat dps' complexity now too, but I'm the opposite. Dps is a snooze fest for me, because I'm just one in a crowd. Tanking is still my primary joy & therapy because the whole raid is pivoted around tanks. Its the leadership, responsibility, group awareness and all that that I love about tanking - not so much the buttons I need to click for any particular encounter. So dont say that tanking is not fun at the moment - for you it may not be, but I'm loving it more than ever! The whole "fun" argument anyways... you know better than to pull that one out, surely?
Tanking sapphiron is a blast because he's a big ass dragon, for christ sake! Completeing achievemnts is much easier for druids, because druids abide enrages, where warriors go down down down. I've seen this happen enough now, to know its not my ego :P Have you tanked malygos? that is not easy to tank, or to raid lead. Have you also checked your damage meters when tanking? Bears do at least twice the total damage as prot warriors while tanking in identical roles. Pallies are somewhere in the middle. Yes, tank dps rocks the house down --- if you're cliking the write buttons and working it as I do. And yes, I believe damage output is now a part of tanking in wrath. We would clear content much faster if we ran with 3 druid tanks, for example.
@Anon:
"So dont say that tanking is not fun at the moment - for you it may not be, but I'm loving it more than ever! The whole "fun" argument anyways... you know better than to pull that one out, surely? "
I tried extremely hard to make it clear that this was an editorial and all about my own experiences/thoughts/feelings and not an authoritative declaration on the state of druids everywhere. :P
Hell - anyone who declares anything in WoW "fun" or "not fun" can only be making a personal statement - fun is entirely dependent on the individual player, and is not a universally quantifiable thing. Some people enjoy fishing, others love shadowbolt spam, and still others love to bear tank.
I'm just not feeling the same joy I used to when feral tanking, and wanted to explore why that was.... after all, this blog used to be 100% about bear tanking, and I almost never discussed kitty DPS.
Hope this clears things up!
Yup tyvm, cleared up :) if I was pedantic, I would say that instead of writing "It's time to bring the fun back to the tanking side of the game.", you should write "its time Blizzard listens to all the emails I send them about what would make tanking more fun for me, and then implement asap".
lol Im just messing around of course, its been a long day. Love ya blog and thx too for the kitty gear list. You inspired me to make more effort. Would you believe I picked up the 2nd highest chest piece in your weighted lists the other night, and havent even bothered to gem/enchant it... that's how lacklustre I've been. Anyway, I will get my act together tonight as soon as I log on. Thank you!
I was also trying to inspire you with my own tanking joys atm!
Karthis: My best tip for 2 drakes gotta be to try to learn 3 drakes. You'll feel relieved going back to 2! :)
Karthis, I'm with you bro. Only instead of switching to kitty, I've gone resto! Whereas tanking as a druid(or any class really) has become monotonous, healing as a druid is more exciting than ever before. I have 7 heals (seven!) with which to play, and with changes in tanking and dps, healing has definitely become the most challenging of roles. Plus, with wild growth I feel like less of a whack-a-mole player in raids and more like I'm strategically using my cooldowns to keep the whole raid up. It's been a joy!
Completely agreed. Though I'm quite surprised that you don't have any threat problems. My biggest problems happen on Malygos during Vortex, since I can't generate any threat other than lacerate ticks and FFF...meanwhile that afflic lock who had a double spark has dots that keep ticking. And double spark heroism on the ground is still kind of hard to compete with as well.
We have a plated tank as our guild's MT, so I haven't personally tanked Malygos and thus can't speak to bear threat on him.
I don't ever recall seeing the plated tank having threat issues tho - I'll watch carefully tonight and see exactly how close DPS gets - especially during vortex.
I personally have never had a issue with threat either. I downed maly with my guild shortly after hitting 80 still wearing quite a bt of blues. (Dps was all geared up way before me) But i have to say no threat issues at all here.
In my dps gear currently i pull 2.1-2.4k depending on the boss fight. I dont know how this compares with everyone else since im the only feral in my guild. ( I am tank spec also) But any ideas would be helpful :)
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